Electronic Ignition on a CB200?

I've been having some issues with my Honda CB200T when accelerating from a stop. After the bike has warmed up (and only after) I have a flat spot in engine response when turning the throttle just a little bit, or at around 2500 rpm. If I throttle past this point it runs fine and while driving I don't experience any problems.

The climber manual suggests adjusting the timing as a way to address flat spots. However a friend of mine has suggested I can save my sanity by getting an electronic ignition system to replace the points.

Does anyone have any experience with these on a CB200 or other 2 cylinder honda? I can't seem to find a kit for this bike, but maybe I'm not looking the right places. Are they even available? Thanks!

I would do a tune up on the bike first. Check your valve clearances, timing, points gap, and etc. The electronic ignitions do sound nice for the older bikes as adjusting points can be a pain sometimes. I know that Bore Tech and Toad Town Racing have electronic ignitions for the CB350 twins, they may have something for the 200 also. I have a 350 twin and would love to put a electronic ignition on my bike but first things first I guess. If you search hard enough there are some articles about building your own. I would like to meet someone that has the electronics know-how to put one together. I have all the resource(work in a machine shop) to build one just lacking on the electronics side. Here is one article (http://www.not2fast.com/ignition/cap-dis-ignit-cdi.pdf) that explains building your own. Good Luck!

Kev

I would do a tune up on the bike first. Check your valve clearances, timing, points gap, and etc. The electronic ignitions do sound nice for the older bikes as adjusting points can be a pain sometimes. I know that Bore Tech and Toad Town Racing have electronic ignitions for the CB350 twins, they may have something for the 200 also. I have a 350 twin and would love to put a electronic ignition on my bike but first things first I guess. If you search hard enough there are some articles about building your own. I would like to meet someone that has the electronics know-how to put one together. I have all the resource(work in a machine shop) to build one just lacking on the electronics side. Here is one article (http://www.not2fast.com/ignition/cap-dis-ignit-cdi.pdf) that explains building your own. Good Luck!

Kev

I've scratch built an ignition for my CB400T. Its all my own , no honda parts used. The design of the ignition is based on the one honda made for the bike. I saw your link on how to make your own multi spark ignition. I'm glad you put that on there. I like the circuit design. It allows for different input trigger signals. There are a few stumbling blocks to making the circuit. He gives the circuit board design as only a part number. So a person making this would have to create their own circuit board. Thats not out of reach since he has a full size layout right in the article. He also says you have to wind your own transformer. I don't think that would be necessary. There are multitudes of comercially available transformers to purchase cheaply. Also, selecting the transformer for the circuit might be a problem. All spark plug ignition coils are not made the same. Input primary voltages have a wide range. Especially from automotive coils to motorcycle coils that are not used on a 12 volt battery system. The way i would do it is buy the smallest transformer for the circuit and see if it runs the bike. If it didn't I would gradually work my way up to a size that would make enough energy for the bikes ignition coil with out burning it up. Because these older hondas have breaker points. The contacter option could be used on the circuit. You wouldn't use hall effect or reluctor input. You Wouldn't have to machine anything just use the existing breaker points. The last thing is timing advance. The circuit has no provision for timing advance. Anyone who has seen an old points distributer from a chevy 350 or a Ford 289 will remember the weights under the cap. They swing out , to advance the timing when accelerateing. The circuit doesnt give that. That requires some kind of sensing input , like weights. In the hondas from 77' to 85' theres a circuit called the exciter, a coil down in the stator that provides advance signaling. .. I like the circuit , I'm going to build one. Thanks for posting.

Thanks for your responses CDImagician and kevhead75! I have an electronics background and experience with design and board fabrication so this sounded like an interesting project. However, I thought it would probably be worth it to work with the original parts first and see how hard it was and how far I could get.

As it turned out, it was a lot easier than I thought. I filed and cleaned the points and adjusted the gap. I opened the alternator cover and adjusted the timing. The only tricky thing was that adjusting the timing (by moving the base plate the points are on) also reduces the gap. To compensate, I had to loosen the screw on one side of the bracket holding the point and move it out slightly, increasing the gap. This way, when moving the base plate to adjust the timing, I ended up with the correct point gap at full open while also having the correct timing.

After this operation the bike's idle became about 500rpm higher which I took to be a good sign of improved performance. I readjusted the idle and mixture on the carbs and took it for a 100mi ride down Rt 1. It performed great with one exception. Under constant throttle at about 6,000rpm for more than 10min or so (and usually going up hills) I would sometimes get brief hesitation. There would be a few slight drops in power and then it would be ok. The battery was completely drained when I started the ride (it had been sitting without use too long), but I don't see how that would have contributed.

The next thing I want to do is check the valve clearances. The valve caps are frozen tight, so I think I need to warm up the engine first or take a torch to them.

MC,
I would definitely check your valves, a little adjustment there can make a big difference. Thanks for the feedback CDI, maybe the three of us should collaborate a little and come up with a homebrewed ignition of sorts. I enjoy building things and learning but circuits have never been my strong suit. If i did I would want to eliminate the points if I could. Check out Jaycar (http://www.jaycar.com.au/). All kinds of cool electronic goodies that may help. I will check back later....leaving for Florida early tomorrow.

Kev

For those tough valve caps try spraying them down with PB Blaster for a few days and then try wrenching them. That stuff can work miracles on tough fasteners.

Kev

Thanks for your responses CDImagician and kevhead75! I have an electronics background and experience with design and board fabrication so this sounded like an interesting project. However, I thought it would probably be worth it to work with the original parts first and see how hard it was and how far I could get.

As it turned out, it was a lot easier than I thought. I filed and cleaned the points and adjusted the gap. I opened the alternator cover and adjusted the timing. The only tricky thing was that adjusting the timing (by moving the base plate the points are on) also reduces the gap. To compensate, I had to loosen the screw on one side of the bracket holding the point and move it out slightly, increasing the gap. This way, when moving the base plate to adjust the timing, I ended up with the correct point gap at full open while also having the correct timing.

After this operation the bike's idle became about 500rpm higher which I took to be a good sign of improved performance. I readjusted the idle and mixture on the carbs and took it for a 100mi ride down Rt 1. It performed great with one exception. Under constant throttle at about 6,000rpm for more than 10min or so (and usually going up hills) I would sometimes get brief hesitation. There would be a few slight drops in power and then it would be ok. The battery was completely drained when I started the ride (it had been sitting without use too long), but I don't see how that would have contributed.

The next thing I want to do is check the valve clearances. The valve caps are frozen tight, so I think I need to warm up the engine first or take a torch to them.

Sounds like its really pulling good now. I'm glad you got it.
I just had a really quick question , How do you display an image in your posts. I saw the two needles , thats cool. I have an image stored here, but I can't seem to get it to show when I post. How did you do that. -- Thanks

click user cp in the upper left hand corner then edit avitar along the left hand side of the screen

later
CB