Z1/KZ900/1000/1100?

Hey everyone it's been a while since I posted in vintage. I have a few questions for a few of you older fellows(I don't mean that in a bad way, more like I'm quite young). There's a few Z1's and big KZ's for sale in my area, I was wondering if they're good. I've read reviews of them before, and many reviews of other older Kawasaki's(AKA the widow makers... 2T triples). All I read is negative things about their handling, and awful things about their brakes. Are they really as bad as everyone makes them out to be? I know this is a sacrilege, but maybe I should get a Zephyr 1100/ZR1100 instead, and then do some stuff to make it look more authentic, and true to the original.

I like this KZ quite allot: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mcy/348673606.html

Also for anyone who remembers when I scored my 80' CB750F back before Christmas... I thought I'd just let you know, I'm almost done my half assed resto job. The paint on the tank looks really good, unless you get up close(within a foot or two). It was my first real paint job... I wish it was better, but hey what are you gonna do? It looks a hundred times better than before at least. I cleaned the hell out of my carbs, put on some drag bars, new grips, I'm working on fixing up the rest of the paint. See the clear coat over the decals started to bubble, but I actually think it's salvageable, I tested a bit on one panel and I think it's going to look allot better. Did a little wet sanding to remove the crap. Next I'll do a little touch up, more wet sand, buff and wah lah(sp?).

I rebuilt my front master cylinder and cleaned the calipers they work pretty good now, and all I had to do was power bleed the rear brakes and add fresh fluid, they work SUPERB. I have some detail stuff to do, like repaint the clutch perch, and master cylinder, and try to clean the motor up a bit(kinda grimy but not terrible), and then use some buffing and polishing compound on all the paint and this thing is gonna look SWEET. I'm also having a straight tail pipe made, just for the hell of it cause it sounds so good with an open header(I tested for shits and giggles). All I'm really waiting for is a few ridiculously rare studs to put the header back on after I painted it. I'd also like a set of CR carbs, but that's not gonna happen, I'm too cheap.

Sorry my posts are so rambling and make so little sense.

I just got to wondering.... I was just looking at the Zephyr 750. The motor looks identical to the old KZ motors as far as I can tell, other than the lack of a kick starter. I wonder if a KZ1100 motor would bolt into that frame? It's obviously a better chassis... No offense intended to KZ owners, it's just plain to see what with twin disc front, bigger forks, aluminum swinger. I think the old KZ motor would be a cool switch, since it's got a kicker... Plus it never hurts to put an extra 400 cc's in a bike. :laughing

Honestly though, look at all those old Gixxer 7/11's out there. I'm sure that's not the only bike you can swap motors in... You can put a 900 or 1100 CB motor in my 750 too(no change at all for 900)the 1100 frame is a little beefier but I think the mounts are placed exactly the same. From a practical stand point, the KZ motor is pry better... Everybody and their brother has parts for them still. Where as the Zephyr aint that popular... I don't know if parts would be that easy to get.

Yeah that pretty much sums up everything I've ever read... But in much nicer terms. Not once in that article do they mention "the wobble of death" or "under pants destroying tank slappers". I've also read that there's basically no easy way to remedy the situation, the bike is just cursed with a bad chassis. Better shocks, forks, swing arm, fork braces, even frame gusseting don't entirely fix it.

I wonder what you have to do to get one of those to handle, and go straight as an arrow... Because I really like the styling, and they're very reasonably priced.

Edit: I found a 1978 Suzuki GS 1000 today in the paper for 500 bucks OBO. I'm going to take a look at it later... Might have a new bike tonight. Owner says it has 14,500 original miles on it(not bad for a 29 year old bike). I believe he said it's got a Vance and Haynes header and tail pipe, jetted carbs and K&N pod filters. Should run like a violated primate. :laughing

The older KZ series bikes are GREAT UJMs,but don't even think they will hang with a modern or semi modern(1990+) Sport bike or older in the GSXRs case. That's just not reality due to the fact that the old bikes were built as street bikes first and foremost.

They were pressed into serving as race bikes even though they weren't design for that purpose.
It's of course no wonder they had problems with the stresses that racing put on the stock/slightly modified parts.

That doesn't mean they can't be great street bikes if ridden like they were intended and not out to embarrass modern 600 SS bikes in the twisties.

I put quite a few thousand miles on my brother-in-law's 1981 KZ750 LTD and with super bike handlebars and braided front brake lines. It handles pretty decent and make good power for spirited back road riding or just cruising for that matter. It's also much more comfortable then most Sport bikes for 90% on the riding most of us do,but with no fairing it can be taxing on the hi-way at 65+ m.p.h. for long periods of time.

It's a better all around REAL WORLD machine for all riding except blasting the twisties or running triple digit speeds. The only things that I see that would make it better other than the obvious design/chassis/suspension advances that 25-30 yrs of hind sight has brought us is to switch to a modern fuel injection system and modern tires/wheel sizes of course.

Steel framed bikes CAN be made to handle well(think Ducati) with the right design and high end components,but then you get into higher cost for return.

I think bikes like the big Bandit,Speed
Triple,ZRX,FZ1,Z1000 have done a good job of filling the role that the old KZs,GSs and CBs have played,but not a GREAT job.

I say that because I can't even physically fit or even feel comfortable on them due to their humongous size! Why does the Japanese think that we are all six foot + tall and weigh 200+ lbs? WHO told them that!

So what do they do? They build big,fat,heavy,tall bikes that really don't sell well over here because MOST of their potential buyers can't deal with the physical size/weight of their product.

A lot end up looking and purchasing a SPORT BIKE because they are the LIGHTEST and SMALLEST bikes overall or a low seat height/low center of gravity cruiser instead.

Then the manufactures get all pissy and say standards(UMJs) don't sell well here and threaten to not design/build any more!

I know it can't compete with modern stuff, and I don't care personally... A good rider on an old UJM can embarrass your typical squid sport bike rider(no offense to you responsible and skilled sport bikers). I fancy myself a pretty skilled rider, not so much on the street... I'm still nervous allot on the street(coming from the dirt cars are very intimidating). Still, even with a 25-30 year old bike, I think I could hold my own against a modern piece under the right conditions.

The main reason I like the vintage stuff is because they're simpler, more comfortable, and lets face it... They're cooler, sound better, and they look better. I hate to be "that guy" like some riders are, that bought their bike just for image... At the same time, the sport bike thing just isn't me you know? I think they look like a blast, but I'm big, burly, and into a different scene... The cafe racer/vintage performance stuff suits my style better. Plus chicks are less reluctant to get on a bike that has an actual rear seat that isn't a mile high, and doesn't look like it goes 500 mph. (I know from borrowing my friends R6, and then my other friends 800 Shadow)

In short, I just want good confidence inspiring handling. What I don't want is a bike that scares the poop out of you in every curve, or every time you have to stop. I don't have any dreams of going balls to the walls at Laguna Seca... Just going at lets say a less than legal pace through my favorite back roads.

Also, modern bikes feel too high up for me... And the rake is so steep. I want something that's super stable... Doesn't take as much rider input to just putter around town.

xr250rDude said:
Edit: I found a 1978 Suzuki GS 1000 today in the paper for 500 bucks OBO. I'm going to take a look at it later... Might have a new bike tonight. Owner says it has 14,500 original miles on it(not bad for a 29 year old bike). I believe he said it's got a Vance and Haynes header and tail pipe, jetted carbs and K&N pod filters. Should run like a violated primate. :laughing

Sounds like a winner... no go?

The guy never called me back... I talked to him, he said he was absolutely going to call me back at 6 pm last night. I called him today, no pick up.

I'm still considering it, if the guy gets his act together. Plus I have to do some convincing of my parents, they just got over the Honda 750(which looks more sporty and dangerous... So this one might be easier).

The GS would make for a nice all around bike and they are pretty comfortable as well.

On any bike I own and plan on not selling in the short term I purchase the best tires (mileage vs stickiness) I can afford and buy a new chain/sprocket set just for a little insurance.

To tighten up the chassis and suspension you can...
Swap out the old shocks/fork oil,seals and springs for new stiffer ones.
You can switch to roller bearings in the steering head,replace the wheel bearings and swing arm bearings/bushings.

coolatula said:

I think bikes like the big Bandit,Speed
Triple,ZRX,FZ1,Z1000 have done a good job of filling the role that the old KZs,GSs and CBs have played,but not a GREAT job.

I say that because I can't even physically fit or even feel comfortable on them due to their humongous size! Why does the Japanese think that we are all six foot + tall and weigh 200+ lbs? WHO told them that!

So what do they do? They build big,fat,heavy,tall bikes that really don't sell well over here because MOST of their potential buyers can't deal with the physical size/weight of their product.

SV650 FTW! Seriously... it's not a "muscle bike" by modern standards, but as a UJM/sport standard/all-around daily ride, it does a superb job. Light, nimble, plenty of power for the real world, tons of aftermarket support... i've got mine rigged for commuting/sport touring, and love it.

xr250rDude, good luck with the GS, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's already sold... that sounds like a steal. And it could be worse... when i was living with my folks, motorcycles were out of the question... didn't get my first until i was 24 :( Now i have to make up for lost time!

...dave
:redcreep

lanispet said:
SV650 FTW! Seriously... it's not a "muscle bike" by modern standards, but as a UJM/sport standard/all-around daily ride, it does a superb job. Light, nimble, plenty of power for the real world, tons of aftermarket support... i've got mine rigged for commuting/sport touring, and love it.

xr250rDude, good luck with the GS, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's already sold... that sounds like a steal. And it could be worse... when i was living with my folks, motorcycles were out of the question... didn't get my first until i was 24 :( Now i have to make up for lost time!

...dave
:redcreep

The SVs are awesome bikes in the twisties!
The FZ 6 and Ninja 650 aren't too shabby either.
A good rider on one of those three will smoke a so-so rider on ANY modern sport bike.