Register
Join Cyclechaos! Motorcycles Wiki Forum Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

cold start trouble

This is a discussion on cold start trouble within the Motorcycle Discussion forums, part of the General category; I have a 2008 750 Honda Shadow Spirit. I have trouble with ONLY the lst start of the day. (Sometimes ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2010   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default cold start trouble

I have a 2008 750 Honda Shadow Spirit. I have trouble with ONLY the lst start of the day. (Sometimes the lst start will be no trouble) After the lst start it will start EVERY time all day long. The lst start of the day it will always start but then die, if it's in it's acting up mode. I can't get it started if it dies. 5 times we've trailered it and it has started each time, making me think it was flooded and the trailering dried it out. Or else it's shaking something back into place and then being able to start. I have tried lots of different ways to start it the first start. Sometimes they work for a while, other times not. Sometimes it acts like it is flooded. Other times it will act like it's not getting enough gas. Twice we shot starting fluid in the carb. Once it started and the other time it just turned over, no fire. I read where a guy had trouble with the lst start of the day (no details were given). He put in new coils and was good to go. I've had suggestions of bad coil, carburator, electrical. But keep in mind, after the lst start of the day she is good to go. Any ideas? This is maddening!!
shadowrider123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010   #2
Administrator
 
budlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: columbia mo
Posts: 401
Send a message via AIM to budlight Send a message via Skype™ to budlight
Default

Does it have a fuel pump? Sometimes on newer bikes with fuel pumps you can cycle the key switch to make them easier to start. Also you might want to experiment with very slight throttle (even though i'm sure its FI). Also does it have a choke? Some Fuel injected bikes still have a choke of sorts. I'm not completely familiar with how these fake choke's work though.
__________________
My ZX1400
budlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default

No fuel pump. Yes, choke. Dealership said to fully choke and I could leave on for minutes with no flooding. Said they did it. First two days after talking with them I left choked for a little over a minute and no trouble. Third day I full choked and after 30 seconds it died. Couldn't restart.
shadowrider123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010   #4
Administrator
 
budlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: columbia mo
Posts: 401
Send a message via AIM to budlight Send a message via Skype™ to budlight
Default

you probably have fouled spark plugs and simply should replace them. To prevent new ones from becoming fouled you may never want to use more than half choke to start it up and use zero throttle unless you absolutely have to.

The next time it won't start you should immediately pull a plug out and take a look at it.
see
__________________
My ZX1400
budlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010   #5
Administrator
 
budlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: columbia mo
Posts: 401
Send a message via AIM to budlight Send a message via Skype™ to budlight
Default

what you'd be looking for in that picture is simply a combination of carbon deposits and fuel/oil deposits. If your plugs are both just save yourself some hassle get new ones, then do your best to make sure it doesn't flood.

Also some honda's I really doubt this 2008 model has it but some used to come with accelerator pumps in the carburetor and someone simply sitting on the bike revving the throttle while it was turned off could cause them to foul a plug.
__________________
My ZX1400
budlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default

Appreciate the pictures of plugs! Unfortunately I know it isn't the plugs. They are new and gapped right. Same kind that had been in it. I checked plugs after bike died and front left was wet, the other three were dry. This bike does have an accelerator pump. I've had a couple people TRY to flood the bike and they couldn't get it to flood. If flooding is my problem, I can't do anything to keep from flooding it.
shadowrider123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010   #7
Administrator
 
budlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: columbia mo
Posts: 401
Send a message via AIM to budlight Send a message via Skype™ to budlight
Default

Honestly on a bike this new, its very unlikely to be something like the coils. If you want to check the coils you can simply test the spark (by holding plugs next the cylinder while starting, do them one at a time). If its a spark issue this will be easier to diagnose than any fuel problem, as it will be easily visible while testing the plugs.

You seem to be unsure if it is getting too much fuel or too little. I would guess you are getting different systems from trying different approaches to starting it. You need to first of all figure out which it is and start from there.

Almost every engine starts better with a richer mixture when it is cold. This is due to the fact that gasoline turns into vapor easier at warmer temperatures. Less gasoline vapors can be counteracted by simply adding more raw gasoline. Chokes serve to enrichen the mixture by blocking air flow (some do add an extra fuel circuit though, especially on higher end engines). Once its warmed up if you leave the choke on too long you will flood the cylinders (time varies but you can hear how the engine is running to know when to remove choke). Some bikes never need to be choked at all it really just depends on you knowing what works best for your bike. Some only ever need half choke and would flood if you tried starting them with the choke fully engaged. The other side of having a rich mixture is having too little air. This could be caused by a clogged air filter, or more common on newish bikes an air filter that due to some circumstances (possibly trailering with the fuel on, also if say the bike had been turned over etc) has become soaked with fuel thus allowing less air in. A too-rich mixture (keep in mind that as it warms what is too-rich changes) will result in some fuel not becoming ignited and can result in a flooded condition where you have damp spark plugs. What you need is just the right mixture. Most motorcycles will need zero throttle when cranking and that is definitely the best way to approach a new bike. Some carbureted bikes do crank better with slight throttle, but these are rare cases. If you think you have flooded it hold the throttle wide full open to allow it to air out. Excessive flooding will require drying out the plugs.

The flip side of this issue is you are getting too little fuel (lean), in this case use the choke, make sure no gas lines are pinched, make sure vent tubes are clear, make sure air filter is secured. Loosen the carburetor drain screw (your bike is supposed to be a single carb) and you may get rid of some water that might have accumulated, you could see it on what comes out as water will not mix with gas. Since your bike runs fine otherwise this is the less likely scenario.
__________________
My ZX1400
budlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default

I'm beginning to wonder if it doesn't need choked. But...where I bought it, they claimed they started it fully choked and left choke on for several minutes and it had no trouble. Three days of starting it that way. Later a friend of mine kept it for 3 nights and he started it fully choked and some throttle. He had no trouble. No matter if I try it their way, she doesn't stay running. I have tried both of their ways and only starts and stays running some days and not others. I took it to a bike shop and I hope he can clear this up. Thanks for your suggestions.
shadowrider123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default

Shadowrider123... at last, I am not the only one having problems... I also have a 2008 Honda Shadow Spirit... And I also have the same issues starting it in the mornings!!! If it starts in the morning there will be no problems with it all day... if it dies (usually with the choke on) in the morning, it will not turn over again... I have also trailer mine to the shop several times only to be told that they found nothing wrong with the bike... please let me know if you figure anything out and I will do the same for you
ccanerday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default

I finally got mine fixed!!! The float was 80 thousands too lean. The guy replaced the float (it's plastic and can't be adjusted) and I have had NO trouble whatsoever. You said yours wouldn't turn over. Mine always turned over. It would start. Then die. If it died it would turn over but not fire. And this ONLY happened the lst start of the day. Hope this helps.
shadowrider123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cold, cold start trouble, start, trouble

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how can I start my kawasaki when it's cold? misselliet Kawasaki 2 12-29-2008 10:53 AM
Cold start trouble Debbie J Motorcycle Repair 6 09-18-2006 02:16 PM
cb350 hard to start in cold temperatures Sky Dancer Honda 3 08-08-2006 09:08 AM
Unstable idle on cold start / 2003 Honda 600 cc VLX Deluxe Freerida Motorcycle Repair 0 05-07-2006 06:49 PM
Cold Start Issues Stephbot Suzuki 1 04-29-2006 10:02 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®