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Repair-Honda Engine with box of parts...

This is a discussion on Repair-Honda Engine with box of parts... within the Honda forums, part of the Manufacturers category; Hello, looks like I'll be hanging out here for a few years. Got this unknown Honda engine with a bunch ...


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Old 06-30-2012   #1
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Default Repair-Honda Engine (CT 125 E) with box of parts...

Hello, looks like I'll be hanging out here for a few years.

Got this unknown Honda engine with a bunch of parts, carbs etc, and I have a totally unrelated frame to install it into, at a later date...

First question...
Engine number: CT 125 E - 1014630

So, does this mean that I have this super rare, one year only (77) engine?

Last edited by spaner; 07-01-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 07-01-2012   #2
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Not a lot of traffic here, is there...

After 24hr, I've found two manuals, one for the "Honda CG125 76-91 Service-Manual", and the other for the XL (the french one). Doesn't seem to be much out there on the CT, certainly no manual.

Can any one tell me if the CT is basically the same as the XL?
Just with lower gears in the box of the CT and 124cc vs 122cc/124cc variations on the XL?

This engine has the pulser on the OHC (two wire), and four wire out of the bottom end. So, with the coil, looks like I'm missing some diode type component to bench run. Anyone know what that component is called?

Thanks for any help. I'm a gear head, just haven't worked on any bikes since I was a kid. I could do it myself in first gear, just thought that with the help of someone here, I might be able to get up to fifth...

Last edited by spaner; 07-05-2012 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Manual-designation
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Old 07-02-2012   #3
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I linked a bunch of forums that I joined, here. Nobody seems to have any advice on this subject...not sure why. Where is the brain trust, on like, five different sites...

Forget it, I'll build it here. Hopefully guys will "jump-in" with the info, on-the-go...cu'z I could use it...

Anyway, here is the story,
I have this 74 Suzuki RV90, this is a "walking bike", meaning that it is only used when the 4x4 is in the mud hole, so that I don't have to walk. It's a great bike, wide tires and all that but, it has the 70cc 2cycle and I have replaced the piston and rings twice. The original was gone when I got it but, the old man forgot to gap the rings on the first go (50 over), scored it, new set done properly and lasted about two seasons on the third set. Now, "rattle...rattle", needs a new set again (mother fracker still starts first kick-0 power; massive ping). Enough of that...
Some say that the 2cycles need to run a little rich; I blow blue smoke with a 50-1 hard mix, not the problem. Others say that 2cycles need this work every season, never mind two. My first and last 2cycle. I've had Hondas in the past, when I was just a kid, and never had any problems like this. I plan on tossing the engine into a roadside ditch, very soon. So, decided to go onto Craig's list and got this engine, like I described above, which nobody seems to have an opinion on.

So let's go...
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Old 07-02-2012   #4
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Ho, did I mention the fact that the motor I got was seized? No matter, we'll figure it out...

This is what I got;





Muffler, two headers, two carbs, set of bars, air box, spare stator cover...and a bag of electrical stuff...





There's the missing part to bench run, as asked about above...I learn fast...





This is her, the Honda CT 125E. I don't know what the green is all about...





Left side. CDI cover was in the bag...





TEAR INTO HER...I can wrench on anything...
Seriously though, looks like I really lucked out. The story that I got was that this guy had it in his barn for 15years, and had bought it from a guy that had it in his basement for 10years. There is no wear on this engine, and I figured it out. This engine was a rebuild project, done by a novice. All new seals and Honda screws, threads are gold...but, the old seal material was not removed, everything was just sandwiched together. The seals are brand new, check this out,





A new piston, new rings...no gaping file marks either
Cylinder still has some honing marks, although, corroded...slightly...
The whole thing has this strange orange kind of fluid in it...Is "break-in" oil like ATF?





Found some broken components. The spring pin, on the left, I know where that should have gone but, the Cer clip on the right was in the bottom of the engine...both piston Cer clips were in place...





Corrosion everywhere but, the kind that can be wiped away with a rag...mostly. The whole thing has a feel to it like it was a rebuild by a 12year old. Lots'a new parts, no engine wear, and I found the seized location; connecting rod to crank bearing...@TDC...
Also, the mechanical timing advance on the OHC was 180 out, at the "dummy" location. There is a little indent there, compared to the larger, proper indentation. It was set there and locked down.
I suspect that someone did a rebuild on this thirty years ago, and couldn't get it to start. Then tossed it into the "spare-part-pile"....

So far,
Missing oil screen and seal
Missing mechanical advance retraction spring(only one was there)
Broken pin-clip
Missing head through bolt(the single M6, on the head)
Missing spark plug
Missing drive sprocket cover
Missing, one case bolt
AND, one extra Cer-clip...

I forgot how fun these Honda engines are to work on...so easy...
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Old 07-03-2012   #5
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...


Nobody can stop me, but they sure could help out....

So let's continue the tear down...






Ok, note the strange orange fluid everywhere...I don't know what that's all about...but, it will soon all be gone regardless...





Tranny section removed in one go, as a whole, as per the "Honda CG125 76-91 Service-Manual" recommendations.
WARNING: two lower case thrust washers should be pulled and placed as per the original installation...
Get a box that is just slightly too small for the unit; can't lose component placement during transport...





Found a second C-clip, in the bottom of the engine, that's two. Nice and clean; I think that I'll use those...
Empty case, remove the seals first, than the bearings...everything is going to get a "hot-wash"...





Note the corrosion, no typical gear-box use wear on this unit, none, but lot's of surface corrosion, just from sitting. Most of it just "wipes away". No matter; major varsol tank job...


That's basically it, for the tear down...easy as could be...
The seized connecting rod-to-crank-bearing...
Well, after wrenching on the components for disassembly, ended up with a 2mm rotational play. Used that to my advantage in the varsol tank; whilst listening to Megadeath...20 minutes later...after 90 degrees of rotational free-play....she broke-lose...oil-spin...varsol-wash...oil-spin...
Ended up with a 10thou thrust measure...and no plunge bearing deflection...
Better that new...





Case, wash/flush/paint...


BUT, the CDI....


...

Last edited by spaner; 07-05-2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Manual-Designation
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Old 07-04-2012   #6
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If you want to see more; google search "spaner", I've got an offroad custom supercharged Japanese minitruck, offroad, Isle-of-man racer; highly modified for pit/mud domination, and can't seem to get any developmental advice on either subject. Youtube video's...
Fupa says that I'm intimidating...I don't mean to be, but no replies...it may just be so;
Then, may it be so; "jog-on"...then...

Let us continue with the CDI investigation:
Help-help-help...otherwise, what's the purpose of this thread?...
AND, I do not learn as fast as I first thought...





The previous was the Rectifier, not the CDI. AND how did I figure this out?
Ebay...





AND, now we're getting somewhere...





AND, so, from what they have, to what I have...


We can figure this Sh!t out, man...LOGIC, is our friend...Let's apply it ...











I just want the engine to run; that's all. Ten thousand wiring diagrams but, not really required; right?..


It should seem very simple now...


...
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Old 07-05-2012   #7
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...


Found another Manual..JITSI...he..he...

"Honda XL XR 125 200R Service Manual"...File Name
"PRIMEDIA" "CLYMER; HONDA XL/XR/TLR125-200* 1979-1987"...PDF, First Page Name...

THAT'S BETTER...
Not perfect, but just about everything is in there. Certainly not the CT, CDI wiring diagram...but I think that I have that figured out,...2x B/W and 2x Green...How do you figure that out?......Later...


Let us continue with the tear-down/build...


First thing you gotta do, is clean that sh!t up...





Next, right away, you gotta start the mod considerations...







Hey, I figure, If Honda Canada can't figure out what a "Honda CT 125E" is, then I get to do whatever mods I feel like...
The head is waiting for the same mod...


Gotta wait for parts now...
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Old 07-07-2012   #8
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...


A good tip, for example, would have been to manipulate the tranny while closing the case the last 1/4"...to engage the kick-shaft start gear...messed with that for an hour...
I'm reading two books at the same time and don't remember reading that...

A lot of parts came it. From the dealer, ordered under "82 xl125s", everything fits. Shaft seals I ordered by size from Canadian Bearing...I like SKF better...

A Fupa tip, I used Dupli-color wheel-rim paint and clear-cover. High heat, repels dirt, shock resistant. It's good stuff. A new dress makes her look brand new...








Now if I need anything else for the top-end, which I will, I think that I'll just order through bikebandit...


...
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Old 07-08-2012   #9
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...


Bottom end is at 80%; waiting for more parts...two seals on the pump, from Montreal. Did the clutch pack today......three hours...corrosion.

Top end;
Cleaning day!!!
Piston and rings, not too bad.

The head, what a mess. I curse you, previous owner...
First, he decided to put a new piston and rings in there. Didn't gap the rings, scraped about 50% of the seals with a screw driver; left the rest for a "stacking", case to cylinder and cylinder to head. Then, decided it was all a very good job and, painted the cylinder and head "slime" green, with a paint brush; right over the mud and deposits...how the hell do you clean that sh!t???





Tried every technique that I could think of, but the fins, too hard to get in there





There is only one way to do it; SANDBLASTING...





I CAN SEE YOU, didn't even know those where there. The head was even worse, and had a lot more cooling ports, like a bee hive...
Only problem with blasting is, I have to paint it now...

The cylinder was a little tricky. You can tell that it sat for a least 20 years. One corrosion ring in the center, then someone kicked it over, another at the bottom, then another at TDC; where it was seized...

Hone, check for slop, hone, check for slop...two hours...

Blasted the ports too. From out-to-in. The ports were just full of corrosion. I'm not going to wast two hours with a brush...Forget port-and-polish...just blast it......clean and sparkley now. Valves too, blast away...

Seats, well, I was careful...


...
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Old 07-10-2012   #10
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...


I should have just built this "puppy" in the lounge area of my mini-truck forum...
I mean, I just can't believe this, no replies...NONE....No build tips nothing, WTF? No torque specs; no consideration to the head torque VS OH-cam-shaft throw-play? No consideration of the CDI pick-up to cam-drive clearance...10-16thou VS spark intensity??? OR, even just the fact that the timing chain on the Honda seems to have this weird kind of "re-torque" understanding, by the public at large. God-dam-man, at the very least, read the work-shop-manual. Never mind the tips...


You don't deserve it but,











Just wasting my bandwidth, ain't I...


...
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